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Church and State Most people would agree the state ought to stay out of the church, but what should the Church's role be in the state?


Let's Talk

Palouse Patriots - Arguments for Church Involvement in Gov.

Charles Finney

The Church must take right ground in regard to politics. Politics are part of a religion in a country as this, and Christians must do their duty to their country as part of their duty to God. God will bless or curse this nation according to the course  Christians take in politics.

The Gospel Coalition

 "The challenge today is, most people, including most Christians, misconstrue the separation of church and state. They treat it as being about the origin of ideas, as if to say, when an idea originates in someone’s religion, we should not bring it into the public square and impose it on others. So the non-Christian says to the Christian, “That idea originates in your religion. You can’t impose it on me.” The Christian then goes along with the non-Christian’s argument, because she has grown up in an individualistic culture and fails to recognize the distinction between an individual Christian and the key-wielding institutional church. After all, the separation of church and state applies not to individual Christians, as such, but to churches in their authority-exercising capacity. Furthermore, both the non-Christian and the Christian in this scenario overlook the fact that every idea and every claim of justice originates in someone’s religion, someone’s worship. They overlook the fact that, when the non-Christian talks about the separation of church and state, he means the separation of the state from everyone else’s church, not his own church. He doesn’t think he has a church, and he’s only too happy to impose all of his idolatry on the state. Fortunately for him, no one ever talks about the separation of idolatry and the state."


Full Article

C.S. Lewis

Works: "The Chronicles of Narnia", "Abolition of Man", "Screwtape Letters", "That Hideous Strength" and "The Magician's Twin" 

 Lewis admitted, "I don’t deserve a share in governing a hen-roost, much less a nation. Nor do most people who believe advertisements, and think in catch-words and spread rumors. The real reason for democracy is just the reverse. Mankind is so fallen that no man can be trusted with unchecked power over his fellows.” 

Lewis's stance

Eric Metaxas

Works: "Bonhoeffer",  "Letters to the American Church", and "Religionless Christianity"

Q&A W/ Metaxas

Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Works: "Discipleship", "Life Together", "Ethics", and "Letters and Writings from Prison" 

Summary on Bohoeffer

Francis Schaeffer

Works: "How Should We Then Live?" and "The Church at the End of the 20th Century" 

Quotes: "The Churches could have changed things in that day (during slavery) if they had spoken with clarity and courage... The Bible commands it." 

"...the churches of that time should be criticized for not shouting loudly enough against these abuses."

Schaeffer's View

Charlie Kirk

 "Freedom Night in America is not just an event; it’s a call for Christians to rise, uniting Pastors and congregations to boldly put our Faith into Action. (James 2:17)

While thousands of churches nationwide resonate with TPUSA Faith’s unwavering commitment to biblical truth, many find themselves at a crossroads, seeking avenues for effective cultural engagement. Freedom Night in America closes this gap. We’re on a frontline mission to engage, equip, and empower the American Church with the essential tools to counter falsehoods and illuminate the inextricable link between Faith and God-given Liberty."

More about TPUSA Faith

Richard Wurmbrand

Works: "Tortured for Christ" and " Marx and Satan"

 Quotes: 

 "Since being in the West, I have visited many theological seminaries. There I heard lectures about the history of bells and the history of liturgical songs, about canonical laws long since disused or about a church discipline that no longer exists. I have heard that some students of theology learn that the biblical story of creation is not true, nor that of Adam, nor the flood, nor the miracles of Moses. Some are taught that the prophecies were written after their fulfillment; that the virgin birth is a myth; likewise the resurrection of Jesus, that His bones have remained somewhere in a grave; that the Epistles are not genuine; and that Revelation is the book of a madman. Otherwise, the Bible is a holy book! This leaves a holy book in which there are allegedly more lies than in Chinese Communist newspapers." Tortured For Christ 

 "I tremble because of the sufferings of those persecuted in different lands. I tremble thinking about the eternal destiny of their torturers. I tremble for Western Christians who don't help their persecuted brethren." Tortured For Christ 

 "Writers around the world protested when two Communist writers, Siniavski and Daniel, were sentenced to prison by their own comrades. But not even churches protest when Christians are put in prison for their faith." Tortured For Christ 


Preview of "Marx and Satan"

Rick Green

Works: Many on this topic and available on his site.

"Inspire Patriotism
Equip Citizens
Educate A Nation

You have a vital role to play in Restoring
America’s Biblical & Constitutional
Foundations of Freedom... For such a time as this!"

https://www.patriotacademy.com/

Church and State

Pastor Doug WIlson

Works:  "Mere Christendom" and many others that touch on this topic

Interview With Tucker Carlson

Biblical References

 

  • Micah 6:8: “He has shown you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
  • Proverbs 11:14 Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety 
  • Galations 5:13-14 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 
  • John 18:37-38 Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” After he had said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, “I find no guilt in him. 
  • 1 John 3:8 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth. 
  • Psalm 82:3-4: “Give justice to the weak and the orphan; maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
  • Isaiah 1:17: “Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.”
  • 1 John 3:18: “Children, let us love not in word or speech but in truth and action. And by this we will know that we are from the truth and will reassure our hearts before him whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.”
  • Isaiah 58:12: “Those who vindicate the oppressed practice righteousness, at the same time they keep the laws of their God.”
  • James 1:27: “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained by the world.”


https://www.openbible.info/topics/justice

https://www.openbible.info/topics/oppressed

https://www.openbible.info/topics/truth

https://www.openbible.info/topics/love_one_another

https://www.openbible.info/topics/light_of_the_world

https://www.openbible.info/topics/orphan_and_fatherless

https://www.openbible.info/topics/defend_the_weak

https://www.openbible.info/topics/understanding_the_times


Amos 5-9

 (Written to Israel, but does what angered God then, not anger Him still today?  Does what pleased God then, not please Him also today? Does the Lord of the children of Israel no longer mind his children turning a blind eye to injustice? Does He now have apathy for greed filled corruption that leads to the poor being walked over? Does He now delight in His people living in luxury while ignoring the needs and idolatry of their countrymen around them 6:4-7? https://www.openbible.info/topics/god_being_the_same ))


Seek the LORD and Live


[1] Hear this word that I take up over you in lamentation, O house of Israel:


[2] “Fallen, no more to rise,

is the virgin Israel;

forsaken on her land,

with none to raise her up.”

[3] For thus says the Lord GOD:


“The city that went out a thousand

shall have a hundred left,

and that which went out a hundred

shall have ten left

to the house of Israel.”

[4] For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel:


“Seek me and live;

[5] but do not seek Bethel,

and do not enter into Gilgal

or cross over to Beersheba;

for Gilgal shall surely go into exile,

and Bethel shall come to nothing.”

[6] Seek the LORD and live,

lest he break out like fire in the house of Joseph,

and it devour, with none to quench it for Bethel,

[7] O you who turn justice to wormwood

and cast down righteousness to the earth!

[8] He who made the Pleiades and Orion,

and turns deep darkness into the morning

and darkens the day into night,

who calls for the waters of the sea

and pours them out on the surface of the earth,

the LORD is his name;

[9] who makes destruction flash forth against the strong,

so that destruction comes upon the fortress.

[10] They hate him who reproves in the gate,

and they abhor him who speaks the truth.

[11] Therefore because you trample on the poor

and you exact taxes of grain from him,

you have built houses of hewn stone,

but you shall not dwell in them;

you have planted pleasant vineyards,

but you shall not drink their wine.

[12] For I know how many are your transgressions

and how great are your sins—

you who afflict the righteous, who take a bribe,

and turn aside the needy in the gate.

[13] Therefore he who is prudent will keep silent (H1724-be astonished, to stop, hold peace, wait) in such a time,

for it is an evil time.

[14] Seek good, and not evil,

that you may live;

and so the LORD, the God of hosts, will be with you,

as you have said.

[15] Hate evil, and love good,

and establish justice in the gate;

it may be that the LORD, the God of hosts,

will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph.

[16] Therefore thus says the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord:


“In all the squares there shall be wailing,

and in all the streets they shall say, ‘Alas! Alas!’

They shall call the farmers to mourning

and to wailing those who are skilled in lamentation,

[17] and in all vineyards there shall be wailing,

for I will pass through your midst,”

says the LORD.

Let Justice Roll Down


[18] Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD!

Why would you have the day of the LORD?

It is darkness, and not light,

[19] as if a man fled from a lion,

and a bear met him,

or went into the house and leaned his hand against the wall,

and a serpent bit him.

[20] Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light,

and gloom with no brightness in it?

[21] “I hate, I despise your feasts,

and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies.

[22] Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain offerings,

I will not accept them;

and the peace offerings of your fattened animals,

I will not look upon them.

[23] Take away from me the noise of your songs;

to the melody of your harps I will not listen.

[24] But let justice roll down like waters,

and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

[25] “Did you bring to me sacrifices and offerings during the forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? [26] You shall take up Sikkuth your king, and Kiyyun your star-god—your images that you made for yourselves, [27] and I will send you into exile beyond Damascus,” says the LORD, whose name is the God of hosts. (ESV)


Amos 6


Woe to Those at Ease in Zion


[1] “Woe to those who are at ease in Zion,

and to those who feel secure on the mountain of Samaria,

the notable men of the first of the nations,

to whom the house of Israel comes!

[2] Pass over to Calneh, and see,

and from there go to Hamath the great;

then go down to Gath of the Philistines.

Are you better than these kingdoms?

Or is their territory greater than your territory,

[3] O you who put far away the day of disaster

and bring near the seat of violence?

[4] “Woe to those who lie on beds of ivory

and stretch themselves out on their couches,

and eat lambs from the flock

and calves from the midst of the stall,

[5] who sing idle songs to the sound of the harp

and like David invent for themselves instruments of music,

[6] who drink wine in bowls

and anoint themselves with the finest oils,

but are not grieved over the ruin of Joseph!

[7] Therefore they shall now be the first of those who go into exile,

and the revelry of those who stretch themselves out shall pass away.”

[8] The Lord GOD has sworn by himself, declares the LORD, the God of hosts:


“I abhor the pride of Jacob

and hate his strongholds,

and I will deliver up the city and all that is in it.”

[9] And if ten men remain in one house, they shall die. [10] And when one’s relative, the one who anoints him for burial, shall take him up to bring the bones out of the house, and shall say to him who is in the innermost parts of the house, “Is there still anyone with you?” he shall say, “No”; and he shall say, “Silence! (H2013 be silent, to hush, keep silence) (We must not mention the name of the LORD.”


[11] For behold, the LORD commands,

and the great house shall be struck down into fragments,

and the little house into bits.

[12] Do horses run on rocks?

Does one plow there with oxen?

But you have turned justice into poison

and the fruit of righteousness into wormwood—

[13] you who rejoice in Lo-debar,

who say, “Have we not by our own strength

captured Karnaim for ourselves?”

[14] “For behold, I will raise up against you a nation,

O house of Israel,” declares the LORD, the God of hosts;

“and they shall oppress you from Lebo-hamath

to the Brook of the Arabah.” (ESV)


Amos 7


Warning Visions


[1] This is what the Lord GOD showed me: behold, he was forming locusts when the latter growth was just beginning to sprout, and behold, it was the latter growth after the king’s mowings. [2] When they had finished eating the grass of the land, I said,


“O Lord GOD, please forgive!

How can Jacob stand?

He is so small!”

[3] The LORD relented concerning this:

“It shall not be,” said the LORD.

[4] This is what the Lord GOD showed me: behold, the Lord GOD was calling for a judgment by fire, and it devoured the great deep and was eating up the land. [5] Then I said,


“O Lord GOD, please cease!

How can Jacob stand?

He is so small!”

[6] The LORD relented concerning this:

“This also shall not be,” said the Lord GOD.

[7] This is what he showed me: behold, the Lord was standing beside a wall built with a plumb line, with a plumb line in his hand. [8] And the LORD said to me, “Amos, what do you see?” And I said, “A plumb line.” Then the Lord said,


“Behold, I am setting a plumb line

in the midst of my people Israel;

I will never again pass by them;

[9] the high places of Isaac shall be made desolate,

and the sanctuaries of Israel shall be laid waste,

and I will rise against the house of Jeroboam with the sword.”

Amos Accused


[10] Then Amaziah the priest of Bethel sent to Jeroboam king of Israel, saying, “Amos has conspired against you in the midst of the house of Israel. The land is not able to bear all his words. [11] For thus Amos has said,


“‘Jeroboam shall die by the sword,

and Israel must go into exile

away from his land.’”

[12] And Amaziah said to Amos, “O seer, go, flee away to the land of Judah, and eat bread there, and prophesy there, [13] but never again prophesy at Bethel, for it is the king’s sanctuary, and it is a temple of the kingdom.”


[14] Then Amos answered and said to Amaziah, “I was no prophet, nor a prophet’s son, but I was a herdsman and a dresser of sycamore figs. [15] But the LORD took me from following the flock, and the LORD said to me, ‘Go, prophesy to my people Israel.’ [16] Now therefore hear the word of the LORD.


“You say, ‘Do not prophesy against Israel,

and do not preach against the house of Isaac.’

[17] Therefore thus says the LORD:


“‘Your wife shall be a prostitute in the city,

and your sons and your daughters shall fall by the sword,

and your land shall be divided up with a measuring line;

you yourself shall die in an unclean land,

and Israel shall surely go into exile away from its land.’” (ESV)


Amos 8


The Coming Day of Bitter Mourning


[1] This is what the Lord GOD showed me: behold, a basket of summer fruit. [2] And he said, “Amos, what do you see?” And I said, “A basket of summer fruit.” Then the LORD said to me,


“The end has come upon my people Israel;

I will never again pass by them.

[3] The songs of the temple shall become wailings in that day,”

declares the Lord GOD.

“So many dead bodies!”

“They are thrown everywhere!”

“Silence!”(H-2013)

[4] Hear this, you who trample on the needy

and bring the poor of the land to an end,

[5] saying, “When will the new moon be over,

that we may sell grain?

And the Sabbath,

that we may offer wheat for sale,

that we may make the ephah small and the shekel great

and deal deceitfully with false balances,

[6] that we may buy the poor for silver

and the needy for a pair of sandals

and sell the chaff of the wheat?”

[7] The LORD has sworn by the pride of Jacob:

“Surely I will never forget any of their deeds.

[8] Shall not the land tremble on this account,

and everyone mourn who dwells in it,

and all of it rise like the Nile,

and be tossed about and sink again, like the Nile of Egypt?”

[9] “And on that day,” declares the Lord GOD,

“I will make the sun go down at noon

and darken the earth in broad daylight.

[10] I will turn your feasts into mourning

and all your songs into lamentation;

I will bring sackcloth on every waist

and baldness on every head;

I will make it like the mourning for an only son

and the end of it like a bitter day.

[11] “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord GOD,

“when I will send a famine on the land—

not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,

but of hearing the words of the LORD.

[12] They shall wander from sea to sea,

and from north to east;

they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD,

but they shall not find it.

[13] “In that day the lovely virgins and the young men

shall faint for thirst.

[14] Those who swear by the Guilt of Samaria,

and say, ‘As your god lives, O Dan,’

and, ‘As the Way of Beersheba lives,’

they shall fall, and never rise again.” (ESV)

Amos 9


The Destruction of Israel


[1] I saw the Lord standing beside the altar, and he said:


“Strike the capitals until the thresholds shake,

and shatter them on the heads of all the people;

and those who are left of them I will kill with the sword;

not one of them shall flee away;

not one of them shall escape.

[2] “If they dig into Sheol,

from there shall my hand take them;

if they climb up to heaven,

from there I will bring them down.

[3] If they hide themselves on the top of Carmel,

from there I will search them out and take them;

and if they hide from my sight at the bottom of the sea,

there I will command the serpent, and it shall bite them.

[4] And if they go into captivity before their enemies,

there I will command the sword, and it shall kill them;

and I will fix my eyes upon them

for evil and not for good.”

[5] The Lord GOD of hosts,

he who touches the earth and it melts,

and all who dwell in it mourn,

and all of it rises like the Nile,

and sinks again, like the Nile of Egypt;

[6] who builds his upper chambers in the heavens

and founds his vault upon the earth;

who calls for the waters of the sea

and pours them out upon the surface of the earth—

the LORD is his name.

[7] “Are you not like the Cushites to me,

O people of Israel?” declares the LORD.

“Did I not bring up Israel from the land of Egypt,

and the Philistines from Caphtor and the Syrians from Kir?

[8] Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom,

and I will destroy it from the surface of the ground,

except that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob,”

declares the LORD.

[9] “For behold, I will command,

and shake the house of Israel among all the nations

as one shakes with a sieve,

but no pebble shall fall to the earth.

[10] All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword,

who say, ‘Disaster shall not overtake or meet us.’

The Restoration of Israel


[11] “In that day I will raise up

the booth of David that is fallen

and repair its breaches,

and raise up its ruins

and rebuild it as in the days of old,

[12] that they may possess the remnant of Edom

and all the nations who are called by my name,”

declares the LORD who does this.

[13] “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD,

“when the plowman shall overtake the reaper

and the treader of grapes him who sows the seed;

the mountains shall drip sweet wine,

and all the hills shall flow with it.

[14] I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel,

and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them;

they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine,

and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit.

[15] I will plant them on their land,

and they shall never again be uprooted

out of the land that I have given them,”

says the LORD your God. (ESV)

  



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